Apocryphal?

Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:49 pm

APOCRYPHAL?

WERE THESE PEOPLE ABOARD TITANIC?
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Submitted by Thomas E. Golembiewski


The following news items were culled from Chicago newspapers, and concern people who claimed they were passengers, or crew, of the White Star liner Titanic There’s just one problem: none of the names can be found on the usual lists for passengers or crew members of Titanic! They’re listed chronologically.

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I cannot find the name “Niket” on any passenger list for Titanic. This couple, George and Mary Niket, can not possibly be Said and Mary Nackid (or Naked, according to the US Report). Mr. and Miss Niket were going to North Dakota; Mr. and Mrs. Nackid were going to Waterbury, Connecticut.

NIKET
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Chicago Daily News, Thursday, April 18, 1912, p. 3, c. 6 (extracted from passenger list):

Survivors From Third Cabin

Additional Names of Rescued Passengers Come Via Portland, Me.

Portland, Me., April 18—Names of third class passengers rescued from the wrecked steamship Titanic by the Carpathia were received by wireless last night. The list as far as it has been received is:

Neket, Mary
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Chicago American, Friday, April 19, 1912, p. 3, c. 2 (names on passenger list):

Neket, Hobia
Neket, Mary

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Chicago American, Saturday, April 20, 1912, p. 1, c. 5:

SURVIVORS HERE TELL OF HORRORS
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George and Mary Niket, third cabin passengers on the doomed Titanic, who were rescued from a lifeboat by the Carpathia, reached Chicago to-day on their way to North Dakota. They are the first survivors of the disaster to arrive in this city.

A story every word of which holds tragedy and suffering, was told by George Niket, who is but nineteen years old. His sister, Mary, is eighteen years old.

They were on their way to the bedside of their mother, who is dying at Bismarck, N. D. The White Star Line listened to their plea to be sent on, and they were given first-class passage on the Pennsylvania Railroad.

Niket and his sister showed marks of the terrible strain of the past few days. Both were pale and emaciated.

Youth Tells His Story.

Niket told the story of the disaster and his part in it as follows:

“I was asleep in the single men’s quarters of the third class when I felt a crash. I heard the men moving about and left the room. I met others hurrying on deck.

“Just then a ship’s officer came down to us and said:
“’Put on heavy clothing and come on deck immediately.’ Everyone became frightened and rushed upstairs. At the points of revolvers we were sent down again and told to put on heavy clothing. Then I came on deck.

“The officers and crew were standing at the boats’ stations and I knew something terrible had happened.

“’We have struck an ice berg,’ said one man and an officer told him to keep quiet and not frighten anyone.

Rushes to Aid of Sister

“Then I thought of my sister down with the women. I rushed down the companionway to the women’s quarters. An officer would not allow me to enter.

“’I want to save my sister,’ I shouted at him. I was mad at his interference. Then he told me that women were dressing and that she would soon be on the deck.

“Later she came u p. I stood by and held her hand and she cried. All the women were crying and talking in many languages.

“They were releasing the lifeboats. A large number of men passengers evidently Sicilians, rushed for the lifeboats. The officers and crew drove them back, beating them with their revolvers and threatening to kill them.

Hears Order: “Women First”

“Then the quartermaster stepped forward with a revolver in his hand and said:

“’We are going to lower these boats. The women will go first, then the men. Let everyone keep quiet and cool.

“The men did not rush for the boats then. They made room for the women. I pushed my sister ahead and saw her get into a boat. I kissed her good-by just as the boat swung clear from the deck.

“One woman refused to leave her husband. She had a baby in her arms. An officer took the baby from her and put it in the boat. The husband pointed to the baby and said to the woman: “Go with the child. That’s your place.’ The woman, however, was put in another boat. She later found her child being cared for by a rich woman on the Carpathia.

Allowed to Go With Sister

“After the women were carried off the officer turned to the men and said:


“’All you who have wives in the boats get in this last boat. I walked up and said I had a sister and he said I could go if I could row. I told him I could. He then sent me down to the last boat with in it.

“I found m y sister when I reached the Carpathia.”

Nicket has been in this country for a number of years. He returned to Europe to get his sister and bring her to her mother.

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Chicago Record-Herald, Sunday, April 21, 1912, p. 2, c. 6:

More Reach Chicago

George and Mary Niket, third cabin passengers on the Titanic, who were among those rescued by the Carpathia, yesterday passed through Chicago on their way to Bismarck, N.KD., where their mother is dying. Mr. Niket is 19 years old and his sister, 18, and both were given first-class passage on a Pennsylvania limited by the White Star Line officers.

Mr. Niket tells of being driven back into the men’s quarters of the third class cabin at the point of a revolver. A revolver aimed at him also warned him away when he would have gone to his sister in the women’s compartment. Indeed the sister ramp an and he pushed her into a boat. She did not know that he had been saved until there was a reunion on the Carpathia. Niket says he got a place in a lifeboat because he could row. Niket confirmed the famous “women first” order of the Titanic’s officers.

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Chicago Tribune, January 5, 1913, p. 5:

BARONESS, WHO WED AMERICAN WANTS DIVORCE SET ASIDE
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Russian Noblewoman, Divorced by Percy Procter of Cincinnati,

Says Titanic Wreck Prevented Contest.

Cincinnati, O., Jan. 4—Annulment of the divorce which was granted Percy Procter, retired Cincinnati capitalist, from Baroness Natalie von Klifus of Russia, here last June was asked in a petition filed in the court here today by attorney representing the baroness.

The petition alleges while she was properly notified as to the beginning of divorce proceedings, she was unable to be present during the proceedings owning to her being a passenger on the ill-fated Titanic.

The petition stated the delay occasioned by the sinking of the ship and the mental as well as physical torture that followed prevented her from even notifying the court until after the divorce had been granted and she therefore asks that it be set aside.

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Chicago Tribune, Wednesday, November 5, 1912, p. 10, c. 4 (item):

SURVIVOR OF TITANIC KILLED

Shamokin, Pa., Nov. 4—Martin Moran, a survivor of the Titanic disaster was killed today by a rush of coal at Natalie colliery. He was employed as a sailor on the big liner and when she went down he jumped into the ocean, swam to a boat, and was saved.

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Chicago Tribune, Sunday, July 25, 1915, p. 11, c. 4 (item):

TITANIC SEAMAN BLAMES EMPTY BALLAST TANKS
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Ocean Survivor, Now on Eastland, Tells of Sinking of Boat

John V. Elbert, a survivor of the Titanic disaster, was employed as gauge man on the Eastland and again escaped with his life. In addition to waking up members of the crew and saving their lives, he guided three dozen persons imprisoned in the aft saloon to safety.
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Elbert said that twelve years of experience in the navy had made him an expert swimmer. The Titanic disaster had hardened him to sea tragedies, he said, so that the Eastland accident did not unnerve him. He was in the water forty-six hours when the Titanic was struck by an iceberg before he was picked up by a German tramp steamer . . .

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Chicago Tribune, Monday, April 12, 1965, s. 2, p. 12, c. 1 (item):

TITANIC LINER SURVIVOR DIES AT AGE OF 71

Helped Control Panic Aboard Ship

Robert McCann, 71, a quartermaster in 1912 on the ill-fated liner Titanic, died of a heart attack yesterday in his home at 1134 N. Lawler av.

Mr. McCann still had in his possession the log of the Titanic, which sank on its maiden voyage after striking an iceberg in April, 1912. A total of 1,513 persons lost their lives in the sinking.

Stays With Ship

At the time of the sinking, Mr. McCann had the task of keeping panic from spreading among third class and steerage passengers. After all the life boats had gone, Mr. McCann stayed with the liner until he could step off into the water. He was picked up by a passing boat.

Mr. McCann born in London, served on ships from the time he was 12 years old until 1923. He served in the British navy during World War I and participated in the battle of Jutland and the attack on the Dardanelles.

At the time of his death, Mr. McCann was working as an inspector of air line parts.

Builds Model Ships

Altho retired from the sea, Mr. McCann could never forget his attachment for ships. As a hobby, he made ship models which were purchased by museums and celebrities. His last model was that of a four-masted barque which was 8½-feet long and 53 inches high.

Mr. McCann is survived by his widow, Marguerite; two step-daughters, Mrs. Alice von Neumann and Mrs. Frances Weber; and three sisters.

Arrangements for private services will be made later.

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Chicago Daily News, Monday, April 12, 1965, p. 48, c. 7 (item):

R. G. McCANN RITES TUESDAY, TITANIC SURVIVOR

Private services for Robert G. McCann, 71, a former British seaman and a survivor of the Titanic disaster, will be held Tuesday in the John Carroll Sons Funeral Home, 25 E. Erie.

Mr. McCann, died Sunday in his home at 1134 N. Lawler. For the past 12 years, he had been a parts inspector at the F. W. Stewart Co.

He was born in London, England, and became a seaman with the British Merchant Marine. On April 14, 1912, he was quartermaster on the Titanic, when it struck an iceberg and sank.

Survivors include his wife, Marguerite; two stepdaughters, Mrs. Alice von Neumann and Mrs. Frances Weber; five grandsons, and three sisters.

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They all may very well have been aboard the doomed liner, Titanic, however, I cannot find their names on any list of crewmen or passengers for that ship. And did Mr. McCann, no matter what ship he may, or may not, have been on, have in his possession the “presumed” lost log of the RMS Titanic?

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This one is of much more recent vintage. The name given is Caroline Stanko (or Karolina Stanko), coming from Poland to Chicago. Just one problem---no such name appears upon the passenger lists for Titanic. Oddly, there were two male passengers with similar names: Jovan (or Ivan) Stankovic, from Croatia to New York City, and one Stanko Lyntakoff, from Bulgaria to, of all places, Coon Rapids, Iowa.---both 3rd cabin. Sadly, both men went down with the ship (this, of course, would rule out any sort of gender reassignment surgery as the possible answer). Perhaps this woman was using an assumed name? Maybe she was disguised as a boy (before the fact)? Or in her fantasy land she was aboard?

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Chicago Tribune, Thursday, April 3, 1975, s. 7, p. 8, c. 1:

TERROR STILL VIVID

By Jeff Lyon

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Goldfish cruise impassively among the plastic palm trees and ceramic spires on the bottom of Caroline Horvath’s little fish tank. With slight effort of imagination, you can visualize some city beneath the sea in there.

The vision is about as close as Mrs. Horvath cares to get to the underwater world. Water in quantity bothers her. She refuses to set foot on a boat; she gets dizzy when she goes near Lake Michigan. In fact, she lives as far from the lake as is possible while remaining in Chicago.

She has her reasons—1,513 of them.

That is the number of her fellow passengers who perished on April 15, 1912,m, when the unsinkable White Star liner Titanic went down.

Mrs. Horvath, now 83, can still recall the experience of 63 years ago in considerable detail. A caldron of steamy, fragrant cabbage soup was aboil in the kitchen at 3416 N. Opal Av. last week as she opened her memory for an interview.

She was Caroline Stanko in those days, a dark, full-faced beauty from a village in Poland. She had lived for time in Germany but longed to join her sister in a far-off city called Chicago.

A priest arranged for her passage to the United Stated, obtaining her passport and paying her steerage fare. She set out by train from Cracow, aiming for Southampton, England, where the great ocean liners were berthed.

With her were a neighbor girl from her home village and a woman cousin taking her three children to California where her husband awaited.

“I was supposed to go on another ship,” Mrs. Horvath recalled, fidgeting absently with the hem of her pink apron. “But it left before we could get on board. It left us right on the pier.”

Undaunt4ed, the travelers were able to book passage on the Titanic, which loomed nearby. Tho they didn’t know it, the sleek giant was the newest entrant in the trans-Atlantic sweepstakes, the most highly touted vessel in history, with the possible exception of Noah’s ark.

The Titanic was to be, her owners proclaimed, the queen of the sea, a floating pleasure dome in which passengers could indulge in their whims while speeding at 22 knots between England and New York.

They would do so like human chrysalises, secure within the Titanic’s impenetrable steel cocoon, the owners proudly claimed.

“We were out for two and a half days or so,” Mrs. Horvath recalled. “Everyone was so happy. They sang and they danced.”

She remembers only the steerage and tourist-class areas, where she and others slept in bunks, wandered about the decks, “and took our meals in the kitchen.”

They were far removed from the better accommodations, where some of the world’s richest people slept in lavish staterooms and dined in sumptuous halls, surrounded by gilt and glass, silver and glittering gems.

“I remember I had gone to sleep after supper,” Mrs. Horvath said. In the other bed was her neighbor.

“I felt a jerk. It woke me up. Then everybody was hollering, ‘Something happened to the boat!’”

The Titanic, steaming confidently thru the clear, chill air and calm sea, had come upon the knife-sharp edge of an iceberg, which slit her underbelly. The jolt was barely felt in the upper decks but below, where Mrs. Horvath was, water was quickly collecting.

“A sailor yelled, ‘Everybody up, but stay where you are. We’ll tell you where to go,’” she remembered.

The next moments come hazily to her. She remembers forming a line for the lifeboats at the direction of ship’s officers trying to avert panic.

“All they told us was the boat hit the ice. We had no time to look back and see what was going on. But I could feel the sinking already. I was scared, you bet”

Mrs. Horvath was one of the lucky 711 women and children to make it into the lifeboats. The others, mostly men, were forced to remain on the doomed deck because the Titanic did not carry enough boats.

“We were packed like sardines in that boat. You couldn’t turn around,” Mrs. Horvath said. “But I could see the boat sinking. I saw the people on the railing. There wasn’t enough room for them, there were so many people on that boat My God!

“They were screaming,” she remembered, “Screaming and screaming.”:

With a roar to wake the Titans of the heavens, the 45,000-ton Titanic tipped bow-first into the water and hung there, then slid forever into the sea. But Mrs. Horvath’s lifeboat was safe.

She remembers the craft bobbin about for 24 hours, the passengers without food and water, bereft of possessions and loved one.

“I don’t know what had happened to my cousin or her children,” she said. “I never saw them again. My neighbor didn’t even make it out to the deck. She died right there inside, of a heart attack. I guess.”

In the lifeboat, she recalled, no one spoke except when someone said, “I wish I had a glass of water,” and a man replied, “There’s water aplenty there but it’s all salty.”

“Everyone was sad,” she said. “They weren’t crying, tho.
They looked down at their feet, waiting for a boat to come. They said a boat would come. We all just prayed.”

Finally, the rescue vessel came and the survivors were taken to New York. From there, Mrs. Horvath came to Chicago, where in due course she found work, married Stephen Horvath of Hungary, and had seven children and 16 grandchildren.

No matter how many years pass, they can’t wipe away her memories of that April night. Now and then the movie version of the disaster is on TV and she watches.

“It always scares me,” she said.

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Chicago Tribune, Saturday, August 20, 1988, s. 1, p. 8, c. 5:

Caroline Horvath

Mass for Caroline Horvath, 97, who survived the sinking of the Titanic while immigrating to the United States in 1912, will be said at 9:30 am Monday in St. Francis Borgia Catholic Church, 8033 W. Addison St. Mrs. Horvath, a Northwest Side resident, died Thursday in Elmhurst Memorial Hospital. She was born Caroline Stanko in Poland and was about 20 when she decided to join a sister in Chicago. She had been booked as a steerage passenger on the Titanic, when it sank on the night of April 15, 1912. She is survived by 5 sons, Martin, Steven, Joseph, John and Michael, 2 daughters, Sophie Hanssen and Mary Powers; 16 grandchildren; 27 great-grandchildren; and 13 great-great-grandchildren.

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She was buried at St. Joseph cemetery.

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Again, nothing further can be found on this woman, or any links to Titanic.
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:08 pm

Chicago Examiner, Tuesday, April 30, 1912, p. 1, c. 2:

Mrs. Patterson Dead on Titanic, Is Report

Woman Who Killed Husband Said to Have Been on Ship Under an Assumed Name.

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Mrs. Gertrude Patterson, traveling under an assumed name, was a victim of the Titanic disaster, according to a story which reached Chicago last night from the hamlet of Sandoval, Ill., the woman's former home. The story was also credited in Mount Vernon, Ill., near Sandoval. where the woman has many acquaintances.

It is said she was returning from Europe, where she was with Emil W. Strouss, and boarded the Titanic at Cherbourg under an assumed name in order to avoid the notoriety which has attached itself to her name since she was tried for the slaying of her husband, "Chick" Patterson, the former Englewood football player.

Recent newspaper reports in Chicago placed Mrs. Patterson at Dusseldorf-on-Rhine, where Emil W. Strouss was also quartered taking the cure for rheumatism. Members of the clothing firm of which the millionaire was formerly a member, however, denied these reports, but at the same time admitted they had no positive information regarding the present whereabouts of Mr. Strouss. The manager of the Stratford Hotel, where Mr. Strouss has a suite, and where Mrs. Patterson formerly lived before her marriage to the young Englewood athlete, also admitted that he did not know Strouss' address, but that he was cognisant of the fact that Strouss had started for Germany recently.

It was not claimed that Mrs. Patterson had sailed on the same steamship with Mr. Strouss, the impression being that she followed a few days after he left New York.

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Maybe? . . . most intriguing all of this . . . most . . . she could possibly have hidden away in 2nd somewhere . . . or even 3rd . . .
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby George Behe on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:40 pm

Hello, Thomas.

Gertrude Patterson was later discovered living incognito in an exclusive Chicago neighborhood. She wasn't on the Titanic.

All my best,

George
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:20 pm

Was George Wick really aboard Titanic? Not according to this:

Chicago Examiner, Thursday, April 18, 1912, p. 4, c. 6:

SAVED FROM WRECK BY "13"

YOUNGSTOWN MAN CANCELS PASSAGE AFTER BUYING GRAND PRIX NUMBER.

Special Cable to the Examiner


Paris, April 17---The unlucky, or in this case the lucky number, 13, probably saved George D. Wicks of Youngstown, O., from meeting death on the Titanic. Mr. Wicks had booked passage, but the day before sailing he was attracted by the sweepstake pool for the Grand Prix. Mr. Wicks selected No. 13, stating at the time he purchased the number:

"Just to show I'm not superstitious I'll take this number. I always thought thirteen was a lucky number. Watch what this will do for me."

That evening Mr. Wicks canceled his passage on the Titanic. He still persists that thirteen is his lucky number.

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Well . . . then . . . who was the Wicks alleged to have gone down with Titanic?

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Chicago Examiner, Saturday, January 30, 1915, p. 15, c. 1:

TITANIC SURVIVOR DIES

Memphis, Tenn., Jan. 29---Thomas J. Micbale of London, who was a survivor of the Titanic disaster, died here today.
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McBail, McBale, Hale---Thomas J.-----well, there must be an error here someplace . . . perhaps a member of the crew?
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:50 pm

Chicago Examiner, Thursday, June 13, 1912, p. 4, c. 4:

DREAMS AND FINDS KIN
_________________
Woman Survivor of Titanic Disaster

Discovers Long Lost Brother


Austin, Texas, June 12---Mrs. Nellie Reed, a survivor of the Titanic, whose husband was lost in that disaster, arrived here a few days ago, destitute and friendless. Four nights ago she had a dream which revealed the whereabouts of her brother, who had been lost since he was five years old. Following the dream, she went to El Campo, Texas, today, and found her brother, who is now eighteen years old.

_________________________________________
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:32 pm

Chicago Examiner, September 25, 1912, p. 2, c. 3:

REFORMED ON TITANIC TELLS OF THE WRECK
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Former Gambler Describes Heroic Acts in a Lecture in Willard Hall
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A professional gambler, reformed by his experience on the sinking Titanic, David A. Williams, a second cabin survivor, told last night in Willard Hall of the scenes following the crash.

"I embarked at Southampton," he said, "I have been a gambler and a thief all my life, and I had made many ocean voyages, preying on passengers in the card room. My experience on the Titanic made a convert of me. When the collision with the iceberg occurred I was playing cards. I landed in New York only to learn of the death of my sister, my only surviving relative. Since then I have not had a playing card in my hand."

An account of the heroism of John Jacob Astor, Mr. and Mrs. Isidor Straus and William T. Stead, the journalist, was given by the lecturer.

"John Jacob Astor was pushed by one of the officers into a lifeboat in which Mrs. Astor was seated," he said. "Just as the boat was about to be lowered a half-clad woman rushed from the steerage. Colonel Astor arose, tipped his hat, assisted the woman to his place and returned to the deck.

"I got in a boat, but was pulled out. I was washed from the deck, but was picked up by a boat from the Carpathia.
___________________________________________
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Stacey maselbas on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:53 pm

Ok well i should first off start by saying Caroline Stanko/Horvath was my great great aunt. ive never met the woman, i dont know what is true and what is not but i am trying to contact her daughter who supposedly is the one with all the information or PROOF of my great aunts voyage on that ship... i found something in the titanic hystorical society website that has a person by the name of Else Horvath who was in 3rd class and the same age as my aunt and was with a family. That sounds like her so im not sure. here is the link. any info anyone finds please let me know i would greatly appreciatte it id like to learn and see more of what ever i can on this cause it really fascinates me. thanks so much
stacey
http://www.titanichistoricalsociety.org ... 912-V2.pdf
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Timothy Trower on Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:09 pm

Stacey,

The link you provided is to a passenger list for the Olympic on her January 10, 1912 crossing to New York; a Third Class Croatian passenger named Jovan Stankovic, aged 33, is the closest I can find to either Stanko or Horvath, whether in passengers or crew, on the maiden voyage of the Titanic.

I am afraid that family lore may be in error, unless your great aunt was traveling under a different name.
All the best,

Tim

THSMB Admin -- timtrower@NOSPAMtitanichistoricalsociety.net (just remove the NOSPAM before sending an email).
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Stacey maselbas on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:07 am

Yea im starting to wonder if she was traveling by another name cause i dont see why her daughter that has the proof wouldnt want her mothers name in the titanic survivors list. i think if that were me itd b a great honor to have my moms name in it. who knows... kinda strange. thanks a bunch tho, i appreciatte it very much :)
stacey
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:25 pm

see below---
Last edited by Thomas Golembiewski on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Dear Stacey:

Thanks for posting . . .

I can add nothing further, only what I posted above. There is no Caroline Stanko (or Karolina, or Carol) aboard the vessel Titanic . . .

I'm not sure what's going on here . . .

Only two people aboard the great liner had similar names, Timothy has posted one of them, one Jovan (or Ivan) Stankovic, coming from Croatia . . . the other, one Stanko Lyntakoff, coming from Bulgaria to Iowa. Both 3rd-class males, and both went down with the ship . . . neither of them seems to match your great-aunt in any way . . . again, unless she was traveling under another name, or merged within another family, or something of that sort . . .

Contact your relative and see what she knows about this matter . . . and post back, letting us know more about all this . . . also, my understanding is that see married Horvath after arriving in the U.S. . . .

Warnest,

Tom . . .
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Sally Nilsson on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:12 am

Hi Thomas, how's it going?

Your post about passengers and crew who may have been on Titanic is very interesting. As you say, they do not appear on any records. Do you think they were on the doomed liner?

Sally
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Thomas Golembiewski on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:51 pm

Sally:

Yes, where have you been? I've thought of you often--as you work, research, dig-up stuff, for your second book--which I also want!

Sally, do keep up the good work you're doing, you posted something about Klein a little while ago, and something about consulate records, keep at it, the more we know the better . . .

Was Murdoch drunk? I think both inquiries considered that, considering the loss of the vessel . . . Sally, I really do think people have made the officers of Titanic to be knights in shinning armour . . . they weren't . . . or great heroes . . . I don't see any heroes in the saga, anywhere--Lightoller even went back to sleep, he didn't think anything was wrong. And I don't believe that they ever thought the mighty ship would sink . . . but to make the officers of the ship some sort of sterling characters is nonsense, they had failings as many . . . though Lowe should be credited with having gone back and picked up a few . . . he deserves a prize of some sort . . .

Yes, some of them could've been aboard--I've had some doubts about that passenger list (for example, where is a list of those who booked, and later canceled their voyage?)--however, with the women passengers, they could've changed their names, remarried, or something, it's hard to say . . . but evidence must be forthcoming . . . lacking that, they must remain apocryphal--as with Mrs. Horvath--maybe her brother was aboard, maybe she took the identity of a male, maybe she was seeking attention?, no matter how good her story . . . it's hard to say . . .

Sally---I eargerly await your next book, do add as much as possible . . . I look forward to it . . . it's earier to dump on Robert than Murdoch--after all Murdoch is a high-ranking officer, Robert a lowly quartermaster . . . . but let's wait and see, more info could surface . . .

Warmest,
Tom

P. S.---Remember what I posted before: Robert Hichens is the most critical of all witnesses---he is the pivot point around which all of Titanica revolves . . . . on and on, and on . . . to this day!
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Re: Apocryphal?

Postby Sally Nilsson on Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:03 pm

Hi Tom

Great to hear from you and thank you for your continued support. I have always enjoyed and been very interested in your posts because you ask the same questions I do. You have given us many names of people who could have been on Titanic and for which there are no records for. Klein is thought by some to be a fraud and I will continue to dig to see if he indeed was on board as a crew member as this most vital of witnesses as indeed Robert was. Lately I have been reading up on Baron Hengelmuller, the Austo-Hungarian Ambassador at the Cleveland Consulate. It was here that Klein was arrested for mutiny and interrogated and he would not budge from his story. Hengelmuller had served 20 years in Washington and was good friends with president Roosevelt. It seems so strange to me that if had thought Klein was a fraud, then why would he have contacted Senator Smith with his story and arranged for Klein to go to Washington? And huge co-incidence it may be, but why was a man named Klein discovered in California just one year later, presenting a theatrical show about the sinking of Titanic? Thought to be an entrepreneur, where did he get his money to do the show? I now understand the show consisted of many models of the disaster. A well respected historian sent me this information. I continue to dig, dig, dig. These are all questions I want the answers for.

Will keep in touch ;) Sally
Sally Nilsson
 
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