316 bodies recovered out of 1500??

[nancykwan]

Only 316 bodies were recovered out of 1500 dead. The number recovered seem unusually low. How many days did the White Star Line waited since the disaster before sending out the Mackay-Bennett and Minia in search for bodies? Why did they waited? Did the majority of the dead went down with the ship or were they just loss at sea? Were there any more bodies sighted by passing vessels after Mackay-Bennett and Minia futile search?

[Michael H Standart]

Actually, Nancy, I'm amazed that the recovery rate was as high as it was. White Star didn't really "wait" to send a ship out there to recover the bodies. There was really no advantage to them to hold back, and any unreasonable delay would have only served to aggravate the public relations disaster that came with the loss of the ship.

The problem in this instance was that first, ship's had to be found and charters for their use negotiated, then the ships had to be fitted out with the required mortuary supplies and equipment. This wouldn't be all that easy to do now even with wireless internet communications, and they didn't have wireless internet communications. Instant deployment simply wasn't a possibility.

The other problem of course....in this is something that non-sailors find very difficult to grasp....is that a human body afloat in the vastness of the ocean is a very difficult object to spot. I'm a retired sailor and I've been involved in and/or witnessed search and recovery operations as well as man overboard evolutions. I know exactly how challanging it is from a "Been there, done that" perspective.

[George Behe]

Hello, Nancy.

>How many days did the White Star Line waited since the disaster before sending out the Mackay-Bennett >and Minia in search for bodies?

The Mackay-Bennett began her voyage on Wednesday, April 17th.

>Why did they waited?

It took two days to make arrangements for the impromptu voyage to take place, for the coffins to be assembled and brought on board, for Halifax to be stripped of embalming supplies in order to supply the vessel etc. etc.

>Were there any more bodies sighted by passing vessels after Mackay-Bennett and Minia futile search?

Horrifying sightings of floating bodies were made by numerous vessels during the days and weeks after the sinking.

All my best,

George

[Bill Wormstedt]

Actually, Nancy, 338 bodies were accounted for after the disaster. Take a look at http://wormstedt.com/titanic/analysis.html for more details.

I don't have the details handy, but I think the later bodies (by the Ilford and Oceanic) were found more than one month after the Titanic sank.

[George Bowes]

From the research I did, this is the list: total 337

MacKay-Bennett: 306 #1-#306
Minia: 17 #306-#323
Montmagny: 4 #326-#329 (tags #324, #325 not used)
Algerine: 1 #330
Oceanic: 3 #331,#332, #333
Ottawa: 1 #334 found June 6th (Kerley)
Ilford: 1 #335 found June 8th (Cheverton)

Carpathia: 4 (this has been questioned as to be counted) I think they should be because they were picked up from the life boats; one (Lyons) who was still alive but died soon after. Burial services were conducted prior to leaving the area for New York.

[George Behe]

Hello, George.

Shouldn't your body count for the Minia begin at 307 instead of 306? (Fortunately, that won't alter your general totals.)

As an aside, part if the confusion about the number of people who were buried at sea from the Carpathia might lie with the fact that one of the Carpathia's own passengers died during the voyage and was buried at sea just like the Titanic victims were.

All my best,

George

[George Behe]

I've been reviewing my files regarding the recovery of bodies and have just noticed a curious discrepancy.

It s generally accepted that the SS Ilford recovered one body (Cheverton) on June 8th. This recovery was reported in the newspapers on August 3rd.

However, I have a second article about the Ilford that was published a month and a half earlier - on June 20th. This article says that the Ilford recovered the bodies of three stewards who hailed from the Isle of Wight, and that these three bodies were buried at sea.

Can anyone provide documentation about which of these two Ilford accounts is accurate?

George

[Timothy Trower]

. . . Or if both are accurate. I've not heard about this earlier account, and find it fascinating.

[Thomas Golembiewski]

Chicago Examiner, Friday, June 21, 1912:

FINDS 3 TITANIC VICTIMS

Special Cable to the Examiner

Hamburg, June 20---The captain of the British steamer Ilford, from Galveston, reports that he found three bodies of Titanic victims 370 miles from the scene of the disaster. Papers on the bodies identified them as three stewards of the Titanic living on the Isle of Wight. The bodies were buried at sea.

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Chicago Tribune, August 3, 1912, p. 4:

FIND BODY OF TITANIC VICTIM

Corpse of W. F. Chiverton, Chief Steward, Buried at Sea by British Steamship Ilford

Philadelphia, Pa., Aug. 2---[Special]---The body of W. F. Chiverton, the chief steward of the Titanic, was found on June 8 in latitude 49.06 north, longitude 42.51 west, by the British steamship Ilford. The finding of the body was reported by the chief officer of the Ilford, which arrived in this port yesterday. The body was buried at sea.

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Chicago Tribune, May 17, 1912, p. 4:

FIND CHICAGO TITANIC VICTIM

New York, May 16---[Special]---The Oceanic of the White Star line came to port early today bringing still another chapter of the Titanic horror. Monday last, in mid-ocean, it found a Titanic collapsible lifeboat---as the folding contrivances of cork and canvas and wood which were carried for the supposed safety of the passengers were called. In it were three bodies, one of which probably was that of Thompson Beattie of Chicago. The body was buried at sea.

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The Chicago Examiner was a Hearst paper . . . in the early account the Captain does the reporting, in the later account the senior officer does the reporting . . .

Thompson Beattie was not a Chicagoan . . . he was from Winnepeg, Canada---he was part of the Canadian contingent aboard Titanic . . . however, he was friends with J. Hugo Ross, a wealthy real estate owner of Winnepeg---and Ross' cousin was Dr. Hugh H. Perry of S. Commercial avenue, who was from Chicago---Dr. Perry made inquiries in Chicago concerning his cousin and his friends, Messers Beattie and Fortune . . .indeed, Dr. Perry was making arragnements to receive his cousin Hugo, who usually stopped in Chicago on his way back home to Canada, from his annual trips abroad . . .

[George Bowes]

I find it difficult to accept the report of finding"three" bodies of "stewards" and the "Isle of Wight" connection.This report states that these bodies were located 370 miles from the scene. Could Cheverton be one of the three or the only one. Cheverton was from the Isle of Wight and a steward from the Titanic. Possibly these stewards were tethered...can't see them found in same vicinity after two months and at that distance. I think that the report was not accurate.I intend to look further into it and report.

[Thomas Golembiewski]

Many bodies may have been recovered, and later buried at sea---only they were never reported . . . all we have are those few items in which the ship's authorities did report a recovery and it was published . . . here's another item concerning Thomson Beattie of Winnipeg, and the bodies found in collapsible A:

Chicago Record-Herald, Friday, May 17, 1912:

CHICAGOAN IS STARVED IN A TITANIC BOAT

Doctor Reports Three Men Whose Bodies Are Found Died for Want of Food

New York, May 16---Death from starvation, thirst and exposure was the fate of the three men of the steamship Titanic whose bodies were in a collapsible boat picked up Monday by the Oceanic, in the opinion of Dr. R. S. French of the Oceanic's medical staff. One of the bodies was identified as that of Thomson Beattie, a passenger from Chicago. The other victims probably were members of the Titanic's crew.

Dr. French's opinion, given soon after the Oceanic docked today, was based on the finding of bits of cork in the mouths of the dead men. He believed they chewed cork to allay the pangs of hunger.

Officials of the White Star Line discredited the theory that the three had starved. It recalled the testimony of Lowe before the Senate investigation committee at Washington that he took from a collapsible boat twenty men and one woman, leaving in it the bodies of three men.

"The sea was full of floating cork," adds the statement, "and finding of these particles does not lend credence to the starvation theory."

Mme. Marcelle Navritil of Nice arrived on the Oceanic to claim her two children, Michel and Edmund, who were rescued from the Titanic while their father perished.

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Again, Thomson Beattie was from Winnipeg---however, he may have been coming to Chicago with J. Hugo Ross, also of Winnipeg. Ross was coming to Chicago to visit his cousin, Dr. Perry, while on his way back to Canada---his friend (and also Dr. Perry's friend), Beattie, possibly was going to accompany him . . . it seems rather callous and cruel of the Carpathia to simply leave that collapsible afloat with the bodies---couldn't they have brought them aboard, and given them a proper burial? They had all morning . . . sad how they were allowed to just float about for many weeks . . .

[nancykwan]

Thomas,

Interesting article. That made me wondered: How did the Titanic's crew confirmed that the three victims were dead? Lowe was not a medical expect.

[Thomas Golembiewski]

Yes, Nancy . . . you're right . . . Beattie, the others, may only have been unconscious---not dead . . . of course Lowe was in a hurry, he had to rescue the, shall we say, the walking wounded, and get them over to the Carpathia fast, the situation was precarious . . . sad though that the bodies were left to bake in the sun . . . I think it was mean of the Carpathia not to have picked the bodies up . . . and if dead, give them a proper burial . . .

Instead that A boat just bobbed about the North Atlantic for endless weeks until the Oceanic finally did the right thing . . . so sad . . .

About the three stewards . . . who'll ever know? The first report was that three bodies were recovered, later report only one, Cheverton, from the Isle of Wight . . . I don't believe there was any sort of official anything keeping track of this sort of thing . . .